User talk:162.228.92.207
Protoss Units While I appreciate your intentions, the template you proposed is something we effectively decided against awhile ago. The zerg breeds are all on the same template because there's no in-universe difference between strains (as in, no zerg "navy" exists the same way the Great Fleet or Dominion Fleet might) and because some strains are too sparse to justify a separate template (e.g. the command template). The terrans and protoss get separate templates because such differences do exist in terms of organization. For instance, your protoss template covered air units and protoss occupations, which already have their own templates. A separate category for protoss infantry and occupations exist. Zerg breeds however, are just put into the same category, and their template reflects that. So yeah. I appreciate your intent, but it would be counter-productive to create a master protoss template when smaller ones already exist.--Hawki (talk) 09:41, July 21, 2013 (UTC) It's exactly because there are many small templates that I went ahead and did this. There are two "meta"-reasons why I did this larger template: 1. Consolidation. Instead of having so many little templates about the many Protoss organizations, why not have just one complete one instead? Either continue to have a bunch of little templates or consolidate and save space. (And yes, it takes more data, space, bandwidth, and cycles to have separate pages for many templates than it does to have one larger template and code it into many pages.) 2. Coverage. Just because we already have "enough" smaller templates does not mean that it helps someone see, for instance, how the civilian occupations fit in with the rest of the Protoss structure. Simply put, not enough of the picture is shown to the reader. With the Zerg Breeds template, you can clearly see the entire faction at a glance, without even going into splinter groups and much of the history. That's what I wanted to apply to the Protoss (and eventually to the Terran) race. -- 23:34, July 24, 2013 (UTC) In regards to above points: *Bandwidth isn't really an issue. A wikia can store over 100,000 pages, and that's not counting user pages, images, etc. *What you're suggesting is really the parameter of categories. If a user wants to find out everything about the protoss, they're free to type in "Category: Protoss" or go to their page and follow the links. The point of a template is to provide easy access to articles that all have something in common. The 'mega templates' you're suggesting are just really a repeat of the category concept. Categories allow a branching structure to see how everything is related, template are for a specific focus. If I'm looking for info on the C-14 rifle for instance, I don't want to have to look it up on a sprawling template with everything from battlecruisers to siege tanks when they have nothing in common with said rifle. I could however, be interested to see how that rifle relates to other weapons. Basically, if I'm looking for something, I don't want to be distracted by things I'm not looking for, and if I am looking for them, I'll go and find them. The same applies to any wiki. If I'm looking for info about X-wings for instance, I don't want ever starfighter in the Star Wars universe thrown out at me. If I do want that info, I can find that info by using the category pages, which is what they're for. *The zerg breeds template is not meant to represent the entire faction, nor does it (doesn't have broods on it). The zerg broods lists broods/organizations on its own template because they all relate to each other on the organizational level. The breeds template lists zerg strains because they all relate to each other on the biological level (as opposed to terran and protoss units which have separate manufacturing processes and whatnot-a zealot is born/trained, a carrier is made, for instance, and a Scout will always be a Scout, while a zergling may become a baneling, which may become a gorgeling for instance). It's the same reason why primal zerg breeds aren't on the zerg breeds template and instead have their own, because they're basically two different branches of zerg that have their own heirarchies. And why canceled zerg units aren't on the template either. So yeah. If wikia didn't have a categorization system for articles, I'd agree with you. But it does, and they serve their own purposes. Categories to cover the 'everything,' templates to cover the 'something.' It's a philosophy that practically every wiki follows and I don't see a reason to change it.--Hawki (talk) 00:40, July 25, 2013 (UTC) So why delete the template? Your first point above contradicts your action: if there's plenty of space for it, and the data is completely valid (which it is), then there shouldn't be any need to delete it; just remove the references to it (which you did). But even then, there's a third reason for the template existing: development lore. You know, the people who come onto this site aren't just those who are interested in the story or researchers; they're not even all gamers. Among those who read pour over this site like a gold mine are the developers, professional and amateur. I'm not surprised if the Blizzard team themselves check out the site and read the comments and double-check their lore for future development (LotV), but modders also look at what is "official" so that they could develop more lore-friendly mods. The better modders stay within the "canon" zone: using legacy units such as Dragoons in a SC2 mod, for instance. This extends in part to the semi-canon and pseudo-canon stuff, like [[StarCraft:_Shadow_of_the_Xel'Naga|the official novels (full canon)]] and Blizzard-designed missions, including beta elements that never saw the light of day. Somehow or another, this are all given their own pages on StarCraft Wiki. But back to what I was saying: development lore. Not to be confused with "lore development", a.k.a storywriting, but rather "the lore of development". This is one of many -- admittedly, a rarely-used term -- for the range of material in which modders can work while still being able to call his/her/their project(s) "pseudo-canon". And what better way of making such material easily accessible to them ... than to display the headers for everything they'd need on one small screen, minimizing the amount of mouse-clicks required, minimizing the page space needed so scrolling wouldn't be often used, and in a checklist-style format separated into categories, subcategories, etc. via a table view ... than to have one "master" template specifically - tailored for their use? Remember, serious developers need this. -- 02:30, July 25, 2013 (UTC) *Space isn't the issue, I was contradicting the point you made that it is. What is the point of deleting such templates is that they're cost prohibitive. From a reading perspective, it's an accumulation of unrelated info that bogs down any specific search. From a searching perspective, it's unneeded, as categories already exist in the branching format. From an editing perspective, it's redundant—a divide exists between lore and gameplay, and the current templates reflect that (e.g. templates for game units, and templates from a lore perspective). It's redundant to have another lore template to cover material that's already being covered, and thus have to edit both templates each time a new addition is made (not to mention game-based templates as well). The only possible boon from a super template is the assumption that people want info on everything at the same time, and for whatever reason, are incapable of searching through categories or typing terms into the search engine. *Actually, Blizzard maintains its own databases and 'historians,' so I'm not counting on them to search here much, and it's a moot distinction when they're still falling into the readers category. *I'm not entirely sure what your point is with your development/lore stuff, but bare facts are, mods here are only given the time of day if Blizzard or an independent third-party source has highlighted them, and the process of modding is better served on sites such as Liquidpedia, which specialize purely in gameplay. Modding is fan work at the end of the day, and fan work, except in very rare circumstances, is reserved for the wiki's fanfiction counterpart. If modders want stuff, they can look at the unit template, or the canceled units template, which is accessible from the main template anyway. Scrolling is what results from massive templates rather than smaller ones. The canceled units templates were created because putting them on the de facto unit templates for SC2 was making them too large, and because it was outright stated that canceled units aren't canon (unless resurrected or whatnot), hence why units such as the bone wasp aren't on the zerg breeds template because they don't exist in lore. Basically, this entire request is based on asking us to do something that we did once, found it didn't work, and want us to reverse that because you want everything on the one page. You're certainly free to make lists on your own page, but I'm going to leave the argument here. 'Tactical templates' are easier to work with, and easier to read. In theory, templates start off generalized, then are sub-divided as required. It doesn't go the opposite way. That's what categorization is for.--Hawki (talk) 04:25, July 25, 2013 (UTC)